From: nattygogo@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.hip-hop
Subject: HIP HOP TO ROCK CORRELATIVES-HUGE POST
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 01:21:29 GMT
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Okay, okay... a couple of days ago I made the correlation between Rock
and Roll and Hip Hop, and their respective evolution. A challenge was
posed via email this morning; simply, I was asked to extend my metaphor.
Well I accepted the challenge and spent all my free time today coming up
with a list... a very long list. Much of it is subjective, but I was
surprised at how much of it actually clicked. Here’s the long ass list,
feel free to berate me, correct me, or just call me a loser for wasting
my time like this.

Okay, to simplify this, I’m going to talk in rock decades. Thus the
correlation is thus:

Rock Hip Hop
1950 1970
1960 1980
1970 1990
1980 2000
So if I say “both were famous in the mid 1970’s - I hope you can add 20
and see that the hip hop act was famous in the mid 90s.)

This is also slightly askew because the Summer of Love in Rock was 1967,
and in Hip Hop I’d say 1989 (The D.A.I.S.Y. Age.) I used this date as a
key factor in creating this list, so there is some discrepancy in
dating.

Also, rock artists seemed to make more lps in the same given time as a
hip hop artist, so whereas a prolific career in rock is 12 lps, one in
hip hop is only 5. That given:

The 1950’s
A whole lot of musicians recording sides for singing groups. Same with
hip hop. House bands providing tracks for the likes of Grandmaster
Flash, Cold Crush, Funky 4, Sugar Hill etc... Not much needs to be
said, nor direct correlation made, except to say that Grandmaster Flash
and Sugar Hill would probably be the Little Richard and Chuck Berry, in
that they made the sound popular outside of the clubs and streets.

So let’s move on....
The Beastie Boys - The Beatles
Okay, some are going to give me flak for this one off the bat, so I
started with it. You must remember though, both started off making good
music, though weren’t highly original. “Paul’s Boutique” is the “Sgt.
Peppers” of hip hop in my opinion, and these monumental lps marked both
acts journey onto experimentation. Both had much success throughout
their careers. Also take into account that both got mixed up in Eastern
Religion after their pinnacle LPs (MCA as George Harrison.) Only
difference, well the Beasties have maintained a 15 year career and the
Beatles didn’t.

Run DMC - The Who
Early on, both created “youth explosions” performing a very simple form
of their art. During the 70’s though, both acts gave way to mediocrity,
yet still drew crowds in the live arena. Both ventured into movie
making as well.

Gang Starr - The Rolling Stones
Biggest stretch timewise, because Gang Starr came out far later than the
Stones, but the metaphor is strengthened by the fact that both bands
maintained their fanbase and intensity throughout the 60s and 70s,
releasing consistent ly good music that changed with the times, yet
maintained a signature sound. Both released amazing Greatest Hits lps
at the end of the 70s, right after they had released the closest they
ever came to a concept lp (‘Moment of Truth’ and‘Exile on Main Street’’
respectively.) Also, both have a frontman who was either loved or
hated, and an indisputable rhythm section.

LL Cool J - Rod Stewart
Both released their best material early on, but with the coming of the
70’s decided to pursue pop stardom. As a result, both became tepid
versions of their former selves, though still released a great song here
and there.

Public Enemy - Jefferson Airplane
This was a hard one to come by, but both came out a few years before the
Summer of Love and peaked during that summer. Both were highly
political and created edgier and more aggressive music unlike any other
band at the time. Both continued through the 70’s with some success,
yet never overcame the initial power of their music.

Boogie Down Productions - Led Zeppelin
Another hard call, but both of them became the mascot of being a
‘hardcore fan’ of their respective genres. Both were seen as
intelligent, yet a closer look reveals that they were not as deep as
their fans claimed. Both had their hugest hits on their fourth lps
(‘Stairway to Heaven’ and ‘Love’s Gonna Get You’ respectively.) Both
recorded seminal live lps. Robert Plant and KRS One also both went solo
to mixed reviews.

Scott La Rock - Jimi Hendrix
Yes, Scott gets double billing as the artist that everyone wonders just
what could have happened if he had not died.

Frank Zappa - Prince Paul
Both were wizards of production, making experimental music with an ear
for pop. Both were fairly underground in the 60’s to mid 70’s and
returned with a series of concept lps. In short, both are fucking
genius.

Tupac Shakur - Jim Morrison
I kind of hate to admit this one, but it holds true. Both had sex
appeal and were viewed as poets of the people. Both utilized
Californian imagery to gain their success. Both died young and huge
cults have built around them.

Jungle Brothers - The Soft Machine
You may never have heard of them, but a lot of mainstream De La and ATCQ
fans don’t know who the Jungle Brothers are either. The Soft Machine
were the first band to break the psychedelic scene in London, they also
are the least successful of the bands they nurtured.

De La Soul - Pink Floyd
The Soft Machine helped Pink Floyd get their start (as the JBs did for
De La.) Both bands (De La and Floyd) started out as purveyors of happy
abstraction, and epitomized the “Summer of Love” feeling. Afterwards,
both became far moodier and somber, releasing concept albums that spoke
of bitterness with the industry and working day life in general.
Towards the 80s, both started releasing material that some of the older
fans deemed to ‘poppy.’

A Tribe Called Quest - T. Rex
Again, a hard call, because Marc Bolan died, but T. Rex were kind of the
third in London’s Psychedelic ‘Native Tongues’ during the sixties. I
decided it worked because both had front men that seemed destined to
become stars, and therefore their music always sounded a little less
underground than Pink Floyd (or De La.) Both were highly popular among
girls.

Eric B and Rakim - Cream/Eric Clapton
Both were seminal artists during their early careers in the late 60’s
and early 70’s. Upon break up though, both Clapton and Rakim started
releasing material that was hit and miss. No one could mistake the
talent, but not many could even compare it to their older work (let
alone enjoy it).

Slick Rick - Johnny Cash
Both actually started in the 50s then went to jail. After jail they had
a comeback.

N.W.A. - Crosby Still and Nash
What?!? you say. It’s true. Both Californian. Both amazing as a
group, releasing a few classic lps. Both fairly political, but pop
successes. Both penned anthems for their time (“Ohio” and “Fuck the
Police” - “Teach Your Children” and “Express Yourself”) After break up,
the members of both continued to pursue solo careers throughout the 70s
with mixed success.

Cypress Hill - possibly LOVE
Both took a sound that wasn’t from SoCal and made it their own. Both
advocated “sex and drugs” in a time when “peace and happiness” were the
catch phrases. Both fizzled out pretty quickly.

Wu-Tang Clan - Black Sabbath
Both took music to a darker and grittier place. Both paved the way for
a new breed of music within their genre. Both had lackluster material
towards end of the 70’s yet maintained their cult status.

Mobb Deep - Judas Priest
Like Judas Priest to Black Sabbath. Mobb Deep created that new breed
aforementioned in the Wu Tang description. Hip Hop heavy metal was
born... gritty, dark and hard, it appeals to fans in the same way that
Sabbath, Maiden, Priest, Scorpions.... appeals to heshers. Capone and
Noreaga, Tragedy Khadafi et al.... - this is hip hop hesher to me!

The Roots - The Grateful Dead
This is perfect to me. Both were a local boogie band that achieved a
cult success in their hometown. Both released LPs that have been highly
criticized. Both had live shows that cannot be questioned. Both were
notorious for their jam sessions.

Jurrassic 5 - The Doobie Brothers
Like a watered down Dead, both of these acts appeared in the mid 70’s
and made pretty harmless ‘boogie’ music. Nothing special, but nothing
awful. Most of the time I’d rather listen to J5 than Anticon, same goes
for the Doobies vs. King Crimson.

Common Sense - Bruce Sprinsteen
Both came on the scene with a whimper, but by their second/third LP
(“Resurrection” and “Born to Run”) had achieved enormous critical
acclaim. Such was the acclaim that both never seemed to come close to
repeating it. They battled on though, and some liked the music they put
out. Most though, were bored to death.

The Fugees - Fleetwood Mac
This one is dead on. Both started out as a fairly decent band, though
acquired a pop sound very early in the game. Both released lps that
were somehow that people’s moms could dig them (“The Score” and
“Rumours” respectively.) After breaking up, male and female members
moved on to great success among the “30 Something” crowd.

Outkast - The Allman Brothers
Both took their respective genres and added a little Southern flavor to
it. The result was a wonderful gumbo of sound. Both had fans among pop
fans and serious music fans.

Puff Daddy - Disco
Both took their respective genres and turned them into pop crap. Both
had their moments though (let’s just call Biggie hip hop’s Donna Summer
aight?)

The Beatnuts - The Ramones
Both comprised of recording engineers and session musicians. Both
created catchy music that turned their genres upside down. Both had
silly lyrics about drugs, sex and violence. Both became mere skeletons
of themselves by the late 70s.

Dead Prez - U2
Can you believe we’re into the 80s already? Both acts were both
militant and positive. Preaching both struggle and happiness. Both
tried to recreate the rebellious feeling of the 60s and bring it to a
new generation of youth.

Antipop Consortium - Sonic Youth
Both came out in the early 80’s. Highly innovative, but often
pretentious as well. (P.S. I like both myself.)

Mos Def - John Waite
Both started out in decent acts (U.T.D. and The Babys respectively.)
After a few years of hiatus, both reinvented themselves as new wave pop
stars.

Well, that’s the end of the long post here’s some I’ll add without
comment...
Tricky - Captain Beefheart
3rd Bass - The Turtles
Main Source - Deep Purple
Dream Warriors - Silver Apples
Will Smith - Rick Springfield

also I mentioned Anticon as Yes and Crimson, but it doesn’t fit in
chronologically... perhaps they’re just ASIA.

Note: I used past tense to make it easier to read. Of course the hip hop
acts still live on (well most of them,) we’ll only see how the future
goes.

peas,
d