Date: Sun, 26 Jul 1998 13:19:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: inri@swbell.net (OverTiME the Beyonder)
To: orrk@weiss.che.utexas.edu (k.orr)
Subject: Re: The Ollie and Kari Exchange
Newsgroups: rec.music.hip-hop
Organization: 3rdCoast Magazine. GAME from Beyond Space ∓mp; TiME

(A copy of this message has also been posted to the following newsgroups:
rec.music.hip-hop)

In article <35b8d779.75872051@news.onr.com>, orrk@weiss.che.utexas.edu
(k.orr) wrote:

> I actually want hip hop to be appealing to the lowest common denominator,

It has to. Whut good is delivering a message that only a few overstand?

> most of us more complex fractions already know what is up with the
>mathematics
> anyway. I wasn't listening for lyrics back when I was a shorty, but
> through checking for the beat only I became more engaged in the rest
> of hip hop.

Headz alwayz forget that they are so tuned into hip-hop that they look for
different parameters when they analyze a song than the average listener.

Yall forget that most folks dont even remember the names of songs they
just remember the melody, beat, or hook.

> Often folks like Puffy and Master P, are stepping stones
> for hip hop listeners. I've seen countless folks discover Young Bleed
> or Mystikal's lyrical prowess when compared to their track mate Master
> P and Sillk.

I could argue that Master P and Silkk has both said sum pretty profound
thangz on record in their own geto way. Becuz the context of lyrics are
just as important as the lyrical content to alotta folkz including me.

Its like college radio types try to shot over your head.
P ∓mp; Silkk slip shotz unda the table. Just like GooDieMob.

Five on the Black-hand side.

> Once a head can distinguish the difference, I think hip hop
> has gained.

I think if headz spent less time concentrating on who's ruining the
'artform' and creating the art mo people would pay attention to their
messages.
Because hip-hop is show ∓mp; prove and the commercial acts are the one's
being seen by the masses for the most part. Contrary to whut most folks
believe the masses are not ignorant they just need to be informed. So the
indies need to do a better job of getting out there. Its posssible. Becuz
Puff has some good arguments of his own:

'...Caint my car look betta than yours?'

Master P started out the trunk.
So did Eightball, Scarface, and countless othaz.

No Limit grossed $80 million in 1997. I got this straight outta Newsweek.
Distribution costs lots of money.

> In terms of appeal and getting their message to commercial radio oriented
> heads, I think the beat jack was a good thing for black-star.

I do too. I dont know why so many headz get aggravated at beat-jacking.
That's whut hip-hop has alwayz been. DJ's used to put tape over their
labels so you couldn't see the names of the artists of the albums they
were spinning so noboy else could jack the beat from them that they found
while diggin in the crates.

Almost every hip-hop song has jacked a beat from some one. That's why
hip-hop was catching so much flake for not being an artform, they were
sampling and jackin old R∓mp;B, Bluez, Jazz, Funk, Disco, and Pop records.

Al Green, James Brown, Miles Davis, George Clinton, Zapp, Earth, Wind, ∓mp;
Fire, the Isley Bros., Maze, Teddy Pendergrass, Maseo, Charlie Parker,
Coltrane, Isaac Hayes, Last Poets, Cameo, War, the Chi-Lites, the
Temptations, Bobby Blue Bland, etc etc have all been used up by producers
in hip-hop.

I'm talkin straight jack'n like Cube said.
Even the most undaground groups are all guilty.

Most of the RZA's beats are old Memphis songs.
He doesnt even remake he just loops them with static and sound effects.
Most of Dr. Dre's beats are all old P-funk hits. (The cool thang is that
George is actually down wit Dre and helped him in the studio.)
Primo uses jazz artists, who he also works wit on the reg.

I'll bet I could name the original song in almost every major hip-hop hit
in the last 10 years.

None of that shit is new.

There are only a few producers in hip-hop who make original beats.
Most just come up with original concepts or themes for their groups.

> The question I ask myself, is was this intentional, and does the
> underground realize what that means.
>
> One love,
>
> k. orr
>
> And that's where I believe the debate ended.

I think it was. But it goes unda their headz.

I think the problem is that hip-hop is getting old enough to where hip-hop
songs are being created/sampled/re-made from old hip-hop songs that were
created/sampled/re-made from even older hip-hop songs which were made from
an even older original song.

Basically the same beats are being recycled too many times and a lot of
people dont remember the originals.

There is a whole generation of headz today who caint remember the 80's.
Hip-hop ages in dog years. It tripped me out when Buckshot remade I aint
no joke becuz in my mind I thought Rakim wuz still in the game.

In the 80's most songs that came out used to sample/mock a popular hip-hop
song that had been out prior to it.

Remember BDP's, 'The Bridge is Over' is a response to MC Shan's, 'The Bridge'.

Stay UP!!

OverTiME