In article <3622B8E9.232F75CC@cs.ucsd.edu>,

  Kang Su Gatlin  wrote:

>

>

> T. Tauri wrote:

>

> > Kang Su Gatlin wrote:

> > >

> > > Listening to tracks I've heard I've rarely if

> > > ever heard anything other than rather simplistic

> > > stylings.  Narrative (even if in the form of two

> > > line braggadocia) almost always takes precedent

> > > over rhyme scheme.

> >

> > Can you explain what you mean by poetics a little more?

>

> What I referring to almost deals exclusively with time and rhythym.



So you're talking about the aural aspect of rap, something you're only gonna

notice when actually hearing the song, rather than just reading the lyrics?

This doesn't seem to be strictly poetics, or poetry, if the time and rhythm

are so important to what you're referring to.  I guess in normal written

poetry, the rhythm is pretty strictly determined by what the words chosen

are, where their accents are.  The only sense of changing or stretching time

is thru line breaks. Hearing a rap though, the mc can alter the emphases of

various words or speed with which he declaims a particular set of words at

will (whether they do is another matter).  hmm, i think i am babbling

somewhat, mostly because i'm not sure what element you are trying to get at

ksg.



>

> > I've had a lot of experiences, it seems, where what I've admired in a

> > track is its poetic elements. Like, when GZA talks about guns clicking

> > "like high heels on a parquet floor", that's a gorgeous simile to me.

>

> Hip hop certainly doesn't have a shortage of excellent similes (and more

> than terrible ones).



somewhat off point, but the use of similes is out of hand in hip-hop.  well

,this isn't a recent occurence, it probably has been for a while.  But

generally, it's just lazy writing.  It's very easy to do.  Sure it takes some

wit to think of a clever simile, but I am more interested in hearing

something cohesive than a story broken up a pointless simile which ultimately

adds nothing to the verse.



that said, gza's similes usually are well above the crowd.  I don't remember

the one above, but he had "lyrics weak like clock radio speakers," which is

not a parallel most would draw.  "unbalanced like elephants and ants on

see-saws" was another favorite.  flipping the script to the man reference

below, while I agree jfk 2 lax is well written, guru's similes on _moment of

truth_ are garbage.  they don't make sense and don't work.  I can't remember

any offhand, but if someone disputes this I will go home and listen and find

at least shitty similes from that album.  it makes me think he is not very

bright if he can;t even use the simplest poetic technique correctly.



>

> > And I was impressed by how Guru spun off his verses in "JFK 2 LAX" from

> > a specific moment, and then brought the whole thing back to that moment

> > at the end (so it was kind of like *Saving Private Ryan*--to give one

> > example--where the whole story was there to fill out and explain this

> > one particular moment at the cemetary). The narrative is enfolded in

> > this very poetic compression of time.

>

> I see this as an example of an interesting narrative.

>

> I'm not really an expert and your friend probably knows more about this than

> I.  I'd be hearing more of what he thought about the rhythym and time

> elements of rap.

>

> KSG



yeah, tauri, talk to your friend some more.  and ksg, if you can, break down a

bit more what exactly you are trying to get at that you do not think hip-hop

has.



                   ...nesta...




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