From: "T. Tauri" <ease@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.music.hip-hop
Subject: Re: Blackalicious down with QuestLove? Say it ain't so!
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:34:39 GMT

--------
mochaspresso wrote:
>
> Interesting thread. But I feel it gets twisted....do you think the
> Roots suck because you don't like the music or are people saying they
> suck because they disagree w/ ?uestlove's personal politics?

For me, they're intertwined, and it's not merely Questlove's politics,
but also it involves a surrounding popular agreement with them.
Personally, I never cared much for The Roots' music--I always found it
bland, but in and of itself it's not truly detestable. But I've always
felt they get oversized props from a certain type of critic or fan just
because it was played by "musicians" (even when a lot of the results are
barely different), and that really pushes me over the edge. It's like:
I've sported Buddy Holly "nerd" glasses most of my life, and back in
college I discovered that some of my teachers would assume I had a
certain "extra" level of intelligence even if I never said a single word
in their class, and I realized it was the glasses and the stereotype
that comes with them. The Roots have benefitted IMO from a similar kind
of generosity.

And Questlove, in particular, has bought into that prejudice himself.
But to me, as to most people who felt the magnificence of hip-hop in the
Golden Era, Marley Marl or Mantronik were like Mozarts and Beethovens,
and I think it's supremely wack of Questlove (or Josh Scott) to
shortchange their contribution or be ashamed of it, think that
traditional musical proficiency should guarantee superior results. Donny
Hathaway's dope an' all, but he shouldn't be the figurehead for
hip-hop--that's Molly's place.

> > 'Cause DJs, musically unschooled programmers, and sample fiends were
> > vital architects of hip-hop, and what they created was GLORIOUS...
>
> Totally agree. Except that I consider Stetsasonic a vital architect
> of hip-hop as well.

S'fine with me. They gave respect (even had a DJ) and of course also
offered a pro-sampling manifesto in "Talkin' All That Jazz."

> I'd even go so far as to include 70's soul and funk bands like George
> Clinton ∓ PF in the architect category. James Brown's backup
> band...whomever they were....also.

I'd say, though, that a vital invention of hip-hop that DJs and samplers
brought in this respect was an attention to some "non-musical" aspects
of those bands. What made JBs loops so tasty wasn't merely the
arrangement or virtuosity of the playing, it was an appreciation of THE
SOUND--the gritty snares and warm kick drums--which was in many ways
just an accident of that era's recording technology. There was, really,
a brand new form of attention being paid to those records that their
makers didn't actually see there in the first place (hence James Brown
never "got" hip-hop, and while George Clinton has been enthusiastic
about it and involved MCs in his recordings at times, he's never been
too good at making proper hip-hop records). It's a fine line, but to me,
while JB and GC/Parliament anticipated hip-hop, they didn't actually
make it *into* hip-hop on their own steam.

> > So hip-hop doesn't need any duck-ass instrumentalists with a
> > superiority complex 'cause they know a diminished 7th chord or can
> > solo or shit acting like "well, that was good for what it was, but
> > now us trained musicians are gonna take it to the next level, so
> > step!"
> >
>
> I see this was a touchy subject back then....

Well, a lot of people were hatin' on the new science back in the days,
and a lot of people still are. If, like me or Akiem, you had to put up
with those insults on a daily basis in order to practice the art you
loved, you'd be as salty.

> not sure if people here want to revisit it, but my 2 cents is that I
> love the DJ/samples and I have love for live music. I think there is
> room for both in hip-hop.

I agree. But personally, I'd add that I think hip-hop altered the
terrain of how music is perceived, and for me to take a live band
seriously in a hip-hop context, I expect them to take *that* seriously,
and give respect due to the unique and admirable talents of the
creators.

A dope record is a dope record, but what makes a dope hip-hop record is
not entirely the same as what makes a dope soul record (beyond the mere
difference between MC and singer), say. And that, precisely, is
something that Questlove really misses the boat on.

Peece,
T. Tauri